Keep the Red Raider and the Indian head logo. That was the blunt message Tuesday night from a handful of former Fulton athletes, coaches and supporters to members of the Fulton Board of Education.
The district, under pressure several years ago from the state Education Department, stopped using a logo showing a Native American head in a traditional headdress. The district kept the name “Red Raiders” and began using what a search of school records shows is the only official logo the school’s ever had — a red block “F”.
But the men who played years ago for Fulton, including a bank CEO and a city Alderman, said that whether the Indian head logo was official or the product of clothing sellers was not relevant. The symbol has been associated with Fulton athletics for decades and should stay.
“To me, this is like a common law marriage,” said Steve Janas. “It’s not sanctioned, but there’s 40 years of history. To say it doesn’t mean anything…”
“No one’s saying it doesn’t mean anything,” said Robbin Griffin, the only member of the current board who was on the board when the controversy first arose 8 years ago. “It’s not that people were trying to do away with history.”
She said the district stopped using an unofficial logo that offended some Native Americans but left the Red Raider name intact — a step Superintendent of Schools Bill Lynch called “moderate” — before the state Education Commissioner could step in and order wholesale change.
“We don’t have to cow down to the Commisioner or anyone else,” said retired coach Don Smith.
Fulton Savings Bank President and CEO Mike Pollock noted that the city has lost much of its industry, its hospital and even some of its churches. “How many more things are going to be taken away from us,” he asked. “Maybe we should rally around this symbol, and say, ‘This is us, and you’re not going to take it away from us’.”
Frank Castiglia noted that other schools have resisted the state’s demand for change. “Why is it that Fulton has to back down?”
Griffin noted that at the time, the district heard from several members of Native American tribes who said the headdresses were religious symbols to them and their use was offensive.
But Janas said he had recently spoken with local Native Americans who were not offended by the use of the Indian head logo. Some, he said, felt it was done out of respect.
“Not everyone feels it’s not an honor,” said Fulton Alderman and former athlete Daryl Hayden, who showed the board a patch from his high school days that featured a Native American face in full headdress. “You’re always gonna get a small group that doesn’t like something,” said Janas. Castiglia called those people “radicals”.
Lynch told the men that the district was in the process of setting up a committee to look at the issue and make a recommendation. He urged anyone interested in the issue to contact him and said the group’s meetings would be publicized.
At the end of the meeting, during the part of the agenda where board members can say whatever is on their minds, two board members voiced support for using the Native American logo. Both were Fulton athletes during their school days.
“This community could use some morale,” said Brian Hotaling, agreeing with Pollock. He made it a point to thank the men for bringing their concerns to the board before a decision had to be made.
“I am certainly a Red Raider,” said board member and former wrestling captain Dan Pawlewicz, who noted that while some schools have made changes — Central Square went from being the Redmen to the Redhawks — other schools, like Weedsport, not only kept their Native American logo, they plaster it on school vehicle doors and elsewhere.
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The name is offensive and racist. Other schools and universities recognized this sort of problem decades ago and made changes. And what the heck does “cow down” mean?????
That’s whats wrong with this country a few people complain that they are offended and we change everything, What about the people you are offending by taking it away ,which seems to be a much higher number. Fulton will always be the Red Raiders.
How is this offensive? Its an honor to have a team named after you. Being a Red Raider means your team is strong and dedicated and plays with honor. What kind of person would be offended by that? You can’t say “good morning” anymore without offending someone in some way. We are surrounded by a bunch of hyper-sensitive people.
I agree with Mike Pollack its about time this city actually fought to keep something here instead of backing down and losing yet another Fulton tradition
I BELIEVE THAT WE SHOUD KEEP THE INDIAN HEAD AS THE OFFICIAL MASCOT OF THE FULTON RED RAIDERS. IF NEED BE, DELETE THE RED, IF YOU FIND THAT OFFENSIVE. BACK IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS OF 1963, THE FIRST CHIEF RED RAIDER WAS CROWN FOR THE HOMECOMING PARADE AND THE HOMECOMING QUEEN WAS CROWNED. WHO DECIDED BACK THEN TO HAVE THE CHIEF RED RAIDER. THOSE WERE THE FUN DAYS. TODAY YOU METION THE CHIEF RED RAIDER TO THE STUDENTS AT THE SCHOOL, THEY LOOK AT YOU FUNNY AND THINK YOU ARE CRAZY.
I WOULD THINK THAT THE INDIANS WOULD BE PROUD THAT WE CHOSE THEIR HEITAGE AS OUR MASGOT. WE ARE ALL PART OF THE INDIAN DECENT IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. I KNOW THAT UP TO THE YEAR 1966 WE HAD THE CHIEF RAIDER. WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT I COULD NOT TELL YOU.
WE WERE ALWAYS PROUD OF OUR SCHOOL MASCOT.
THANKS
The bankers and other officals should worry less about the mascot and worry more about getting the money back that has left the town,,good prioprites..
Honor, courage, discipline, respect; an endless list of positive attributes worthy of any team…… and Native American culture. A City honors another culture by adopting a positive symbol for its own youth and someone turns it into a negative. This country was built partly upon seeing the best of other cultures and adopting those parts as our own. Now we turn away from what made America great and rip away at anything that happens to get someone’s shorts in a bunch. More and more, the tail wags the dog.
To “out of town”…What better priority than to show you care for the spirit of your community. When you attempt to enhance the pride in a person’s community, wouldn’t that proud feeling naturally translate to a effort to make it better in other ways like working to bring in jobs, families, etc?
To “Zelda”. “Cow down”…roughly, to cower and submit. Born and raised in Fulton. Still live here. I remember that saying from my youth and still hear it today.
I wonder why there isn’t a movement to ban the phrase “J—- C—–” when someone uses the name in a swearing format? Why not a law to prevent advertising that has “Xmas” displayed? Why doesn’t the Irish community picket when bars advertise drink specials on St Patrick’s Day? I think the New Orleans Saints should be required to change their name. Oh the brutality of football, on Sundays no less.
Glad I’m not politically correct.
I agree with MOST who have made their opinion known here. We are the RED RAIDERS of FULTON and our mascot is the Native American head. If I’m offended by the gladiator will the Trojans change their mascot? I don’t think so!
Isn’t it bad enough we lost our school name? We were know as Fulton High School. Everyone knew what our hometown was. Now it G. Ray Bodley Hight School and few know the hometown. (It was nice to honor Mr. Bodley, but…)
This country has allowed a minority of RADICALS to dictate what is good for the majority. When do we take a stand?
Check out the 1964 yearbook cover which depicts a Native American with 3 feathers and a bearclaw necklace. This was not done to ridicule anyone but was done with respect . I may be a long time out of school, but I’m here to tell you I was always proud of my school and mascot.
By the way, my paternal grandmother was 3/4 Native American and my maternal grandmother was 1/4 Native American and I’m NOT offended. Keep the mascot as it is…. Have some backbone Fulton….. Stand up for our heritage!!!
OFFENSIVE AND RACIST MY AUNT FANNIE. THE OPENING LINE OF THE ALMA MATER SAYS IT ALL,” ON THE BANKS OF OLD OSWEGO WHERE INDIAN FIRES GLEEMED NOW STANDS OUR ALMA MATER TRUE GUARDIAN OF THE STREAM”. WHAT DOES IT SAY ? PLAIN AND SIMPLE IT SAYS RESPECT !!! WE WERE PROUD TO BE RED RAIDERS AND STILL ARE. NO,NOT ALL SCHOOLS HAVE COWED DOWN TO THE RADICALS OUT THERE. EVER HEARD OF THE “FIGHTING SOUIX” OR “RUNNING UTES” FOR INSTANCE ? WELL, THEY ARE ALIVE AND WELL.
I LOOK FORWARD TO PROUDLY WEARING MY RED RAIDER SWEAT SHIRT TO MY 50th CLASS REUNION IN 2011. THANK YOU.
First, I think a persons profession when relaying an opinion on an unrelated subject is not relevent to the subject. Second, I think that when the symbol was selected it was because it represented a strong and proud icon for a strong and proud school. In no way, I believe, was it to offend or to degrade any race, creed, or lineage. I know there is no way you can decide anything these days without someone declaring “Hey, I’m offended!” But, I think one of the highest forms of adulation is to emulate what you think represents how you would like to present yourself. In reality, the world we live in, maybe the big red “F” is what we will be! I just hope we don’t offend the alphabet!
As a recent graduate of GRB, I can say first hand how absolutely ridiculous it is that we are no longer able to use the indian head as our mascot due to biased views towards it. As a freshman I was able to see the final crowning of Chief Red Raider, and ever since then pep-rallies and school spirit have been a mixed display of raider pride and uncertainty. Getting rid of the indian head is like getting rid of what GRB and Fulton has represented for decades. We’ve always been known as that, and that is who I want to pride myself with being, a Red Raider, represented by something strong like an indian head, not a stupid big block letter.
You’re not going to be able to please everyone. I would like to be able to first hand talk to these local Native Americans that find this mascot offensive, and figure out why it is they find it offensive! I am sure there is a counter argument to 99% of whatever they manage to come up with.
My point, we are free to be whatever mascot we want to be. You’re not going to please everyone, and why you feel the need to obey the demands of one group of people is beyond me. Keep the mascot, it’s a symbol of Fulton and the history of GRB. I hope by the time I graduate college the real Fulton mascot will be back, and that gosh darn block letter will be GONE.
Give me a break! Why is it that a few people can dictate a change that so many people are against. The Red Riaders and their logo have been in existence for decades. Weren’t the Native Americans instrumental in the development of Fulton and many of its neighboring areas? What about the Washington Redskins? If the Native American head symbol is good enough for them, why not Fulton: There are fewer and fewer traidtions in this country all the time so let’s keep this one. What a shame that this is even an issue.
From a former Fulton resident now living in Florida
It may not be a bad idea to modify the school’s branding so it reflects the evolving nature of our community. As the original “Raider” theme was a cumulative image and name representative of the Native Americans who once thrived on the banks of the Old Oswego, a new logo and theme could reflect today’s culture. Here are some suggestions: “The Fulton Foreclosures” ; “Fulton Fast Food Franchiseers” ; “Fulton Budget Busters” , “Our Town Doesn’t Smell Like Chocolate Anymore”, “The Tax Hikers”, and “The Relocators”. Another idea would not only create an instantly recognizable brand, but would generate much needed revenue for a cash strapped school district: sponsored mascots. For example: “The Fulton -Burger King Whoppers”– even specializing the mascot names to reflect different sports ( the swim team becomes the “Fulton Filet O Fishes”, the basketball team becomes the “Dunkin’ Donuts Dunkers”, the football team with a stout defense becomes the “Wal Mart Wall Of Doom”, etc. ) See? This kind of productive brainstorming just opens the doors to all kinds of “opportunities” in these tough times that, truthfully, are a laughing matter for nobody. I’m for recognizing and upholding tradition…. while recognizing that there are voices that may not agree with your point of view. School mascots and logos should not offend or hurt, regardless of the way it was “in the good old days” because, over time, perspectives change. Let the students decide. Let them create a new mascot. Make it an educational endeavor that allows some kid a chance to create a new one that he can look back at in twenty years and say, “we did this.” Change is good. But move on: we’re arguing about benign nostalgia. The point of my commentary is that my home town faces much bigger problems that need to be solved.
As a former Red Raider Football bench warmer, now living in South Dakota, the mecca of all things Native American and Indian, I have come to respect what their culture has given us, even though we took far more from them. Why would anyone even consider taking more from them? Strip them of their lands, their way of life then give back a little in the form of sporting and someone always wants to take that away as well.
I left Fulton in 1985 to join the USAF and haven’t looked back since. My mother, brother and 95% of my closest freinds followed suit. Apparently most of the jobs and local ecomomy has left as well. Even the churches are leaving at this point so my question is why allow the Native American Culture to leave as well? If the Red Raider name and Indian Head Dress leave you’ll soon be left with just the board that is overseeing this “issue.”
On the front cover of the 1984 yearbook there are 6 references to the Indian Heritage. Open the front and back cover to the 1983 yearbook and it’s a full picture of an Indian Warrior protecting the Oswego Valley. The 1982 yearbook front cover depicts the Indian Warrior. Why don’t we ask the indian Warrior what he thinks???
To this very day every time I see a traditional head dress or hear Queen’s “We Will Rock You” I think fondly of the 19 years I spent in little Ole Fulton, NY. I think you should all do the same…
Aren’t elected officials supposed to serve the interests of their citizens, taxpayers, and constituents, instead of catering to some beauracrats in Albany? Way to stand up for yourselves and fight, Raiders!
They should go back to calling it Fulton High School too…
This is Political Correctness run amok. The Red Raider mascot has always been designed, displayed with respect and reverence. There have been many atheletes and students of Native American heritage that have come through the halls of Fulton HS and I do not recall any complaints from them. As a 3 sport athelete I remember the pride I felt before, during and after any event. I still feel that pride today and shutter to think that our heritage may be taken away forever.
I was very and still am proud to be a Raider. My daughter who goes to the GRB. isn’t in any sport but she does know the Words to the ALMA MATER. My Mom who just went to her 60th reuion knows the words also with out looking at a copy of them. Are we electing our board members to do what we want or only to look good for the government. I think that they should stand on their own principles and do what is RIGHT!!! The children today dont have much good in their lives, let them have something, school pride, school history. Once more don’t take something good away. Show our city the right thing. Go Fulton Red Raiders Go!!!!!!!!
Our civil rights now a days are being used as a scape-goat for the majority who complains things are “offensive”….Give me a break people 10yrs ago this didn’t seem to be much of a problem if any and now it’s blown way out of proportion. It’s the FULTON RED RAIDERS it always has been and always will be. For the one person who doesn’t like it or finds it offensive there’s going to be two different people who will disagree. Leave the logo alone and stop complaining the past and current alumni students, staff and athletes especially us wrestlers take great pride and honor to be called a former Fulton Red Raider wrestler….Bottom line BACK OFF!!!!!!!!